dragonagefandomcom-20200223-history
User talk:Shaktiboy
Hi, welcome to the Dragon Age Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Warden Commander Armor Set page. I hope that you will stick around and continue to help us improve the wiki. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Pwr905 (Talk) 07:26, December 25, 2009 Ideal order? I've noticed you've added info about 'ideal order' of doing main quests to couple of articles and I have no idea where it comes from. Challenge scale gives absolutely no info about prefered order, only thing it tells is not to go to Orzammar/Denerim first. It isn't very hard to get lvl 7-8 at the end of Lothering or lvl 10+ at end of first quest you do. So player can go to Redcliffe/Brecillian Forest/Mage Tower first then practically anywhere as encounters will scale anyway. The order you present looks as if you asummed that player will gain at most 1 level from whole main quest. Also I don't get why should DLCs be done ASAP. While they provide some good items, Shale and blood talents, player may find it more worthwhile to go there at higher lvl to get better crystals/warden armour (if he doesn't want to use sell-buy back trick/exploit). The optimal quest order is largery based on what player wants. Eg. if he plans to use Wynne, he'll go to Mage Tower first, if he wants to unlock blood magic, he'll start with Redliffe, if he plans to side with werewolfes, he may go to Brecillian last to prolong the time he can use Elves' unlimited elfroot/poison extract/deathroot supply, etc. There's no one perfect order. So unless you prove me wrong, I think this whole 'ideal order' info is misleading and should be removed. Xalard 20:30, January 2, 2010 (UTC) :Xalard, did you follow the link to the externsal article about Challenge Scaling that I included in my wiki content? That's the source for this information. Included is a map that lists the average levels each major area was designed for. This was the main source for the "ideal order" in my wiki content. I confirmed this information by using a cheat to push a character in Ostagar to level 25 and then going through the quickest path possible to unlock each new map area and test a few typical encounters to see the upper ceiling of enemy levels created by the game's default challenge scaling. For example, if you go to Redcliffe Village/Castle at level 25, you'll see the upper limit is level 10-11 for normals and below, level 12 for lieutentants, level 14 for bosses. Convinced yet? If you would like to "soften" the "ideal order" section where it appears by stating that role-play reasons or wanting to get a specific companion or item sooner, etc. might be good reason to follow a different order, that's fine. But in terms of the designed upper/lower limits to the designed challenge scaling of each area, the "ideal order" that I've enumerated is correct. :As for your other comment about when to go get DLC items, earlier is better. For example, Warden Commander armor even at tier 4 is better than pretty much anything you'll find in early areas of the game. Why not wear it ASAP and spend 35g later to upgrade it to T7 when you're finally high enough level? 35g is nothing: gold is plentiful in this game. And selling it to a vendor and buying it back is not an exploit in any way, shape, or form. If you want to argue that fact on the forums be my guest but it's certainly not grounds for changing wiki content unilaterally.Shaktiboy 15:29, January 3, 2010 (UTC) ::The link says absolutely nothing about maximum or even average level of enemies. What the map lists is minimal level (as indicated by numbers like "10+" not "10-20" or "around 10"). Also the article clearly states "it does not mean that things will be a cakewalk if you go there late in the game" and, if what you say is true, going to Redcliffe last at lvl ~18 will mean that encounters will be significantly easier. The upper limits are only mentioned to exist in the article. ::If you base this order on something other than article linked (eg. your tests) then either add it to article on The Missing Manual or post your results (preferably for more than one location) on revelant discussion page (Talk:Challenge Scaling) as for now it looks like you wrote it based on minimal levels. :::No offense, but you don't seem to get it. If you can overlevel a particular area (very easy to do for all areas except Orzammar and Denerim and things following the Landsmeet), then the challenge you "feel" when you finally do visit one of the lower-limit areas is neglible. Conversely, if you rush right into all the Orzammar quests immediately after leaving Lothering, you might feel quite overwhelmed until you manage to slog along for enough time to have passed level 10. So like it or not, that map does indeed suggest an "ideal order" in which to visit the various areas if you want the enemy's upper and lower level limits to match your typical party strength. If you want to soften my "ideal order" section by adding your own counterpoints, feel free, but if you do an outright removal or reversal of that information, you are doing the community a disservice. I suggest you just do your homework and test things in the game for yourself if you don't trust me or the author of the other article that I used as supporting information for the "ideal order" Or if you don't trust the numerous other people on the official forums who have pointed at that article/map in a similar vein. I even recall some talk pages for one of the articles I amended with this info containing a request from somebody to revise the article with this challenge scaling information in mind (which is one of the reasons I came along and added this useful information for newcomers to the game). Shaktiboy 00:35, January 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::If you have any data, these threads with 'numerous people' or talk pages where there are proofs or even claims about average level/upper limit of levels for locations then please share them. I simply want source for that order. I don't doubt in article on The Missing Manual, I just point it doesn't have any data that's revelant for presenting any 'ideal orders', except not to start with orzammar/Denerim, as most player will be at lvl 7+ at end of lothering and lvl 10+ at end of their first quest anyway. It even says (i'll cite that again): "it does not mean that things will be a cakewalk if you go there late in the game" directly contrardicting your second sentence in post above. If you still don't get that, I'll point that according to this map a lvl 20 player can go anywhere past Lothering and will be fine and according to your information such player will have things significantly easier in anywhere, but Orzammar/denerim. ::::I don't want to add my own points on top of yours, because it will really look strange if there's one opinion based supposely straight on game data, then next to it another saying that this data is misinterpreted and gives no info, except for not to start with Orzammar/Denerim. Don't you think that average player who doesn't care about games' inner working will have no idea what to follow? Xalard 13:43, January 4, 2010 (UTC) ::IMO doing something that was clearly not intended and was partialy removed (can no longer be done with storage chest) via patch is clearly exploiting, but it's not what this discussion is about. Xalard 18:30, January 3, 2010 (UTC)